Some conversations feel important before you even press record.
This was one of them.
My guest today is Dr. Deborah Plummer — psychologist, author, speaker, professor, founder of Getting to We, and someone who has spent decades helping people understand what it really means to move from “us and them” to “we.”
She is also my dear friend of 47 years.
And yes, she was once my high school teacher.
So when Debbie and I sit down together, the conversation is never small. This one certainly was not.
We talked about DEI, belonging, social trust, gender solidarity, fear, power, race, language, and what happens when words that were meant to help us understand one another get twisted into something that divides us.
Because that is part of what is happening right now.
Words like equity, inclusion, belonging, and even woke have become so charged that many people react before they even stop to ask what those words actually mean.
And as psychologists, Debbie and I both know that this is how humans work. We like certainty. We like categories. We like to know who is “safe,” who is “wrong,” who is “with us,” and who is “against us.”
But real trust does not grow from certainty.
It grows from curiosity.
One of the lines Debbie says in this conversation has stayed with me:
“When there is discomfort, there is often learning behind it — if we can stay with it long enough.”
Of course, that doesn’t mean staying in unsafe places. It doesn’t mean ignoring harm. It does not mean abandoning your values to keep the peace.
But it does mean that sometimes the discomfort we feel in hard conversations is not a signal to run. Sometimes it is an invitation to pause, listen, and ask a better question.
In this episode, we talk about why social trust matters, why belonging is more than a nice idea, why women have always held a unique role in shaping culture, and why moving from “me” to “we” may be one of the most important challenges of our time.
We also talk about the danger of helplessness.
Because when the world feels this divided, it is easy to shut down. It is easy to say, “What can I possibly do?”
But Debbie reminds us that each of us can choose one place to begin.
One conversation or issue we personally feel the most passionate about.
Maybe, one moment where we decide not to collapse into fear, silence, or certainty.
This conversation is not about having all the answers.
It is about asking whether we are still willing to see each other as fully human.
And maybe that is where trust begins again.
You can learn more about Dr. Deborah Plummer and her work with Getting to We here: https://gettingtowe.org/
If this episode gives you something to think about, I hope you will share it with someone who may be willing to stay curious with you.
Keep Going
If this episode stirred something in you, these conversations may be a good place to go next:
A Belief That Chose You: Propaganda, Cognitive Dissonance, and Thinking for Yourself
For anyone thinking about how political messages, fear, repetition, and certainty shape what we believe.
The Voices in Your Head: Whose Are They Really?
A deeper look at the inherited messages we carry, and how to decide which voices still deserve authority in our lives.
What’s in a Name? Women’s Identity, the Law, and the SAVE Act
A conversation about names, identity, women’s legal history, voting access, and what happens when policy sounds simple but the lived impact is more complicated.
Join the Conversation
Want to go deeper than the podcast? The REAL Women’s Collective is where women gather for honest conversation about identity, confidence, caregiving, relationships, and what it means to live more truthfully.
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Resources Mentioned
Getting to We is a nonprofit organization founded by Dr. Deborah Plummer that helps people move from “us and them” to “we” through social trust, belonging, and honest conversations across difference.
You can learn more about Dr. Deborah Plummer and her work with Getting to We here: https://gettingtowe.org/
Dr. Deborah Plummer is a psychologist, author, professor, thought leader, speaker, and founder of Getting to We. Her work focuses on diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, social trust, and helping people build the skills to live and work across difference.
Trust in Black and White
In this episode, we also reference the documentary project connected to our work on social trust between Black and white women, and the conversations that began through the 136% Project and later grew into the larger work of Getting to We.
Listen or Watch the Podcast — Becoming Real with Dr. Lori
